Restore the old scout

SpecialOne

Hi mate

Tks for your feedback about new scout (even if you don't agree with it), but let me just add some info to make it fair for others to comment!

Old Scout:

You had to pay at least 2€ to be a season ticket holder so you can hire scout
You had to pay his wage, even if you don't use him
Costs will be the same if you scout one player all season or one player per day
You can only buy one player per day
Possible to configure scout criteria in a way that was almost 100% sure that scout will bring Player X
If there was no player matching the criteria you set, he would come empty hands
As soon as you open scout, player was put immediately on Transfer list, so if someone was on at that time, they can 'steal' the player you scouted
If someone scouted exact same player as you and he logged earlier than you, your scout wouldn't give you any player

New Scout

Variable costs, you only pay salary if you use him and you only spend boss coins if you really buy one of the players he brought
You can buy several players per day (you'll have to spend some boss coins for it, but that's a user choice)
You can't scout an exact player, but you always get 3 players to chose from (if there's none on the criteria you set, he will bring others)
If you're not searching for star players, above 90, chances that you get a player that will fit your squad is almost 100%
Scouted players are only available for you and if you don't buy them, no one else will have them available to buy

The way I see it (on a manager's view), new scout is way better than old one!

I believe I covered all aspects from both options, if not, please feel free to correct me

MenagerBL

The new scout is not bad, but 15 coins for 1 player is just ridiculous!
For example in 1 battle I usualy buy 40-50 players via scout, so it's about 600-800 coins.
Scout is the most important part of battles, who are the most interesting part of the entire game, and I need to spend about 10 or more euros for the scout in only one battle...That's not normal.
One player should cost 5 or 7 coins.

SpecialOne

@MenagerBL said in Restore the old scout:

For example in 1 battle I usualy buy 40-50 players via scout, so it's about 600-800 coins.

How many players you use to buy via Scout on Old version?
If I'm not mistaken, battles are 10 team leagues, so you have maximum 25 rounds... I don't believe you, if you say that your scout never came empty handed back then, neither that you use to buy a player per round. Also 90% of users that play battles always had premium on their accounts, and this means that they had to spend a minimum of 4€ per league... so... do your math!

MenagerBL

I respect your opinion and I know you are the admin, but honestly, you wouldn't introduce this whole new version if that wouldn't bring you more money than the old version, everybody know this...

In the old version I could play on all 4 accounts for about 5 e per month. Let's say 10, it's ok. Why you speak about premium account? I could use premium only on main account and use ''basic'' (green) tickets for other accounts and play battles and use scout. That was cheap.
What do you think, how much players I can buy now via scout for 1 month (30 days) on 4 accounts?
Minimum 150-200, that's 2.200-3.000 coins. How much money is this?
I will not speak about training camps, friendly matches, and what to say about spending 1 coin for buying a layer from TL? Why you don't give us 1 coin for every sold player???
I need pay 20-30 euros if I want play regulary.
Ofc I can enter empty leagues and play with computers and spend only 50-100 coins for a league, but what's interesting there?
You should make new achievements or find some other way for earning little more coins, now it's very expensive believe me...
Best regards!

Dovco_HandF

@klosek This is a Fantastic, creative discussion on the interesting subject about scout! Thank you, buddy :clap_tone1:.

klosek

@SpecialOne said in Restore the old scout:

New Scout

Variable costs, you only pay salary if you use him and you only spend boss coins if you really buy one of the players he brought

You can buy several players per day (you'll have to spend some boss coins for it, but that's a user choice)

You can't scout an exact player, but you always get 3 players to chose from (if there's none on the criteria you set, he will bring others)

If you're not searching for star players, above 90, chances that you get a player that will fit your squad is almost 100%

Scouted players are only available for you and if you don't buy them, no one else will have them available to buy

The way I see it (on a manager's view), new scout is way better than old one!

I believe I covered all aspects from both options, if not, please feel free to correct me

Ad. 1 We assume that buying one player per day (as the old scouts) 30x15 = 450 is approx. 5 euro = 1 month playing season ticket, so if you buy more than one player costs will be higher - do not count here that I do not use other profits for coins.

Ad.2 You're right. But it generates higher costs, as pointed out above.

Ad. 3 Watch Ad. 4

Ad 4. That's not true. (I say this based on my own experience)
Many times I needed players for example. Ok75-78, because those I can afford, a scout brought unfortunately weaker barely 70 when those already with me in abundance. It should be noted also that the price discrepancy players with skill 70-80 is huge !!!

In conclusion, I would suggest narrowing the ranges of skill players to scale at 5 points (apart, of course, costs)

Adilmo Rocha

I see that a lot has changed for the better in the new version. I also really like the current scout.

My only concern is really about the costs! Without wanting to make big calculations, it was notoriously much more expensive to play with 4 active accounts.

Today, doing calculation from below:

Battle leagues:

1 - 4 stages (180 coins)
2 - 4 friendly per day in an average of 25 rounds (400 coins)
3 - 6 secret drills (18 coins)
4 - An average of 100 players bought per season (100 coins)
5 - An average of 25 players bought from the scout (375 coins)

Total = 1073 coins (That is, about 10 euros or R $ 40 reais) only for 1 account!

Normal League on Main:

1 - 4/6 stages (180 to 880 coins) - depending on the league!
2 - 6 friendly per day in an average of 25 rounds (600 coins)
3 - 6 secret drills (18 coins)
4 - An average of 100 players bought per season (100 coins)
5 - An average of 25 players bought from the scout (375 coins)

Total = 1273 to 1973 (10 to 20 euros / 40-80 reais) 1 other account

Of course sometimes we use less and sometimes more. I did not enter into the account the cost of 280 coins to create a league (the last amount I paid)

My conclusion is:

The game is much better, the look was excellent, the evolution and transfers of players has improved greatly, the scout has a sensational idea, finished that business where the most experienced always win. Now anyone can go well!

The only issue that worries me is the costs. I have members in my group with restrictions because they can not afford coins. And I know several others like that.

My suggestions in this regard would be:

Reduce the cost of creating alloys for battles (50 coins would be well paid and would encourage groups to play more and more battles);
Reduce scout value to 10 coins per player
If each player bought costs 1 coin, then every 2 players sold would earn 1 coin
The 5th and 6th training camps are exorbitant. Could cost less. The scale could be: 10/20/40/80/160/320 (1st to 6th training camp)
Finally, with regard to the friendlies, I think they could work like this:

Re-authorization of the opponent. In that case, if the opponent accepts the friendly, it would cost 2 coins. If I want to do without the opponent's acceptance, then it would be worth twice as much.

Sorry for the big text and any possible error. They are only suggestions and hypothetical values, but not far from reality.

I think GB can make more money. With slightly smaller values, more managers are using the tools available.

SpecialOne

@MenagerBL said in Restore the old scout:

I respect your opinion and I know you are the admin, but honestly, you wouldn't introduce this whole new version if that wouldn't bring you more money than the old version, everybody know this...

There was a way better way and a lot less work than make a new version. We could just raise price of tickets!

I'm admin, but I'm also an active player and I don't take advantage of my admin position as a player and I can assure you that I don't need that many BCs to have acceptable performances (some people say that's way more than acceptable).

Of course that I agree that if you're really an active player and want to win everything at all costs, then yes, you've to invest some money... but isn't it like this all over the world? If you want to win Premier League with Sunderland in a league full with active managers, then I'm pretty sure you'll need to invest some BCs, but if you play with City, you probably won't have to spend any BCs...

Everything depends on what your goal is and how do you want to achieve it!

But we're going off topic... This topic is too discuss the return of old Scout system!

Battles why you guys only talk about battles? Only 1% of OSM users play battles. We should improve the game to ALL (or at least majority) of OSM users, not just users that play Battles!

As a player (not as admin) I prefer this scout system... no need to check a list to search for the player that suites my needs!
I just set the criteria of the player I need and send the scout... if he brings one that suites my needs, I'll buy him if I've enough money or I pay the extra BCs needed, otherwise, I'll send him again!

@klosek said in Restore the old scout:

In conclusion, I would suggest narrowing the ranges of skill players to scale at 5 points (apart, of course, costs)

In a couple hours you went from "Bring the old scout back" to "Narrow the ranges"

There's something else I forgot to mention... Scouted players are always cheaper than players from TL and also cheaper than old scout!

klosek

@SpecialOne said in Restore the old scout:

@MenagerBL said in Restore the old scout:
In a couple hours you went from "Bring the old scout back" to "Narrow the ranges"

Such catching the words, instead of a constructive discussion will lead to nowhere. My main problem was the players' skills brought by a scout and every way to improve this interests me.

Adilmo Rocha

@Adilmo-Rocha @SpecialOne @klosek

Sorry for running away a little of the subject of the initial topic. If you want, disregard my part.

Dovco_HandF

@SpecialOne said in Restore the old scout:

Only 1% of OSM users play battles.
Oh, my goodness! Only 1% players know about different, better in my opinion, face of OSM. :face_palm_tone3: How can we change this unfortunate situation?

Memphis United_NL

@SpecialOne The fact that scout players are so much cheaper than players on the transferlist is a big part of the problem. Someone who trades players by buying them from the transferlist can't compete with someone who trades players by buying them from the scout, impossible.

Let me show you a simple calculation. Assume that you are an active player who play in 4 competitive leagues. Each month (30 days), you can scout a maximum of 30*(24/16)34 = 540 players. If you want to buy al these players, this will cost you 540*15 = 8100 boss coins. In a month.

Of course this is an extrem example, but it just makes clear that osm have become a pay-to-win game. In fact, each league is an unfair competition since your chances to win increase significantly if you spend a ridiculously amount of boss coins. And that's all the result of the new scout system.
I speak on behalf of a lot of people if I say that the new scout system has ruined te game completely.

zacanin

I kinda understand what SpecialOne is saying. But, there's always but...
This game has become very expensive, I can't say how many players are buying this BC, I'm sure I will never buy it. I don't have so much money that I can spend in something that's just a game and that should have it's main goal to amuse it's players and get to know players from all over the world.
About battles. Let's say that about 3 years ago on the old engine, you needed about 0,5 euros for one battle. Now you need at least 10 euros. That's 20 times more expensive. I'm talking about just 1 acc and 1 battle. I played just one battle on this new engine and spent over 1k BC's for 4 training camps, 6 secret trainings, buying players from transfer list and buying players from scout. 1k coins costs 10 euros. In old version all you have to do is pay for season or premium tickets and those tickets expire only on a game day, when a player plays a game. In a battle where you play in a league with 10 teams plus cup there's 22 rounds and in most battles goal 7 or goal 9 time don't make it to the cup final and all the other teams don't play first round of cup. So, you needed 21 tickets for a battle. In some countries those tickets were more expensive in some it wasn't but you every now and than had discounts for tickets so that the battles were more reachable to the players with less real life income.
Not to mention creating a league. Back than all you had to do for creating a league is to have enough tickets but you didn't lost those tickets after the league is created. Now you need to have enough boss coins and you loose them right after the creation of a league.
About the scout. Except the price of the players from scout everything else is somewhat better than before.
The point I wanted to say here is the price of boss coins are too expensive. In other online games designers also made the game pay2win but with skills you could have overcome those players and be better than they are no matter how much money they spent. In this game, this cannot be done. Manager who buys players constantly from the scout can easily create a monster team and if that manager doesn't have the best tactic but average he's very hard to beat.
Also, about the scout, I would like that scout can find more star players 90+ than it does. I didn't know, well, I didn't do much research, that he won't bring you players you want. In this one battle I played I already had all of my players above 92-93 skills and I scouted those 90+ players for 3 consecutive days until I gave up from it.
#SpecialOne don't say why are we constantly talking about battles. I think not just we, who wants to play battles want cheaper price of BC's, but everyone except ofcourse those people in Netherland lol

VlaD-I

I agree all of you. I share your opinion. Since v3, I played like 10 battles, and I spent about 15.000 BC. That s almost all the money I spent on v2 since 2007 $:\$ . And saying that the costs are almost the same is a big lie.
As zacanin said, the problem is not the scout or one part of the game, the problems is the enormous cost of the game.
Yeah, many 1% of OSM players do battles, but this 1% spend a lot. I think 80% of the players don't use a cent for this game. So is not about the numbers.
Also, a big big problem: to create a league of 10, the cost is about 180 BC or so? And, if you win the title and the cup you are awarded somewhere near to 16 BC? Are you kidding me? This is pure stealing.
I know, If we don''t like it, we shouldn't play it. Don't worry GB, soon we won't .
Have a great evening!

Stevie McSteveSteve

I personally think that scouts are prohibitively expensive. As a solution, I suggest implementing discounts .

Single-team account: 15 coins
Double-team account: 13 coins
Triple-team account: 10 coins
Full account: 8 coins

andre1u16

v3 is all about money. It is not related to what is improved or what you can do now and you've couldn't do it before.

In order to enjoy the all good things that were implemented and also to be able to fight every time for good places, you will need to spend a lot of money. It is not necessary to do simple math calculations because above there are already members that highlighted how is the difference in money between v2 and v3 of OSM.

The situation now is like below:

play without BC and no chances to win leagues with many users (no matter of what team you select)
use BC and improve everything on each season = spend a looooot of money
enjoy the game as it is or do not play it anymore

My curiosity on all the discussion here is: does OSM bring more money now than in the past? Probably yes, since the prices are so high. The creators are satisfied with this, even if the number or players buying tickets/playing is probably less than before.

Guys, it is all about money nowadays. We need to understand that this is the reality and we play it accordingly or stop playing it. Even reducing the players bought from scoutlist, camps and everything and it will never be as before from the money point of view. At least triple will be now, with all the changes (if SOMEHOW and SOMEDAY will happen).