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  3. Divisions - Discussion/Questions....

Divisions - Discussion/Questions....

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  • SpecialOneS SpecialOne

    Looking at the majority of the posts we see in here, all should be fine if we lock the cheaters, is that it?

    There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

    This new ranking is in place for 6 months and I didn't saw a single complaint/suggestion to improve it.... and now that we announce that we'll remove old one, suddenly it's all bad?

    As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

    Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

    So... my suggestion is:

    • Let's work together on solutions to improve this medal ranking instead of just repeat yourselves saying this ranking is a bad idea?

    NOTE: If you guys want me to be active providing answers where possible and discuss it with you, you first have to read, give it some thought and think before post!

    Vincent Ado KompanyV Offline
    Vincent Ado KompanyV Offline
    Vincent Ado Kompany
    wrote on last edited by
    #139

    @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

    Looking at the majority of the posts we see in here, all should be fine if we lock the cheaters, is that it?

    No

    There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

    Can you give specific reasons for this?

    This new ranking is in place for 6 months and I didn't saw a single complaint/suggestion to improve it.... and now that we announce that we'll remove old one, suddenly it's all bad?

    Probably because most managers (I mean those who play battle and other big competitions) did not pay attention to this type of ranking

    As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

    This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

    Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

    I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

    So... my suggestion is:

    • Let's work together on solutions to improve this medal ranking instead of just repeat yourselves saying this ranking is a bad idea?

    I agree, we need to discuss that as well
    This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

    • (I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;
    • There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;
    • The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern 😂

    NOTE: If you guys want me to be active providing answers where possible and discuss it with you, you first have to read, give it some thought and think before post!

    TOP G
    Nagelsmann on fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥
    Tari Gamad 🔞📌💦

    SpecialOneS 1 Reply Last reply
    10
    • Márcio Girilim SantosM Márcio Girilim Santos

      Good morning to all.

      I already read all post about this decision to remove Manager Points and it is obvious that 99.9% doesn´t agreed with that.

      I posted a comment in Portuguese Forum first about this situation where i gave the example here before explained by @HBlauzahn.

      The actual top Medal Ranking Player villooti despite he is a OSM player since January 2020, he is at the top of the ranking ...
      If we analyze this 4 slots, this player has the 4 leagues created by him.
      ➡ SLOT H: There are 10 coaches in a league of 12, all inactive coaches (except Villooti). Villoti manages to lead the league with 0 draws and 0 losses with a 28M team.
      ➡ SLOT 1: There are 14 coaches in a league of 14, all inactive coaches (except Villooti). Villoti manages to lead the league with 0 draws and 0 losses with a 25M team.
      ➡ SLOT 2: There are 8 coaches in a league of 10, all inactive coaches (except Villooti). Villoti manages to lead the league with 0 draws and 0 losses with a 27M team.
      ➡ SLOT 3: There are 12 coaches in a league of 12, all inactive coaches (except Villooti). Villoti manages to lead the league with 0 draws and 0 losses with a 29M team.

      💁‍♂️ Recipe:: Just create the 4 leagues in the 4 slots, invite inactive coaches and you will be great! 🤷‍♂️

      Shame...

      If Medal Ranking is a ranking to stay, please do not remove Coach Point ranking. Let the 2 co-exist...🙏

      V Offline
      V Offline
      Vinayak Singh Mehra
      English Users
      wrote on last edited by
      #140

      @márcio-girilim-santos
      Oh god what the hell man! This is too unfair!

      Boss at Pro Manager Guiders
      Be the one who thinks for all, just not for himself! #SaveOSM

      1 Reply Last reply
      2
      • RestimatR Restimat

        @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

        This new ranking is in place for 6 months and I didn't saw a single complaint/suggestion to improve it.... and now that we announce that we'll remove old one, suddenly it's all bad?

        Is this a joke ? 😅 No offense at all, but please find below some proofs, suggestions, topics that have been created in order to understand, suggest, correct things looking strange about medals. Even though you told us to wait some time before judging the medals ranking system; let me quote you on September 29th, 2020 after many critics on this same topic:
        "Just give it some time and you'll find out that medals will be more balanced and according to the manager level/skills."

        • This exact topic received many complaints and suggestions, just look back.
        • https://forum.onlinesoccermanager.com/topic/59539/medals-rules-and-logic/37
          This second topic was created, we raised some serious stakes after months of deep thought but did not get any answers.
        • Random legit suggestions somewhere else: https://forum.onlinesoccermanager.com/topic/3310/osm-game-features-chatroom-suggestions/1064?page=54 (Hank Strama in November or Vinayak in September)

        Personally, I've seen many suggestions on the forums such as reducing 4 counting accounts to 1 or enhancing the calculation system which does not really take the manager division into account whether he's Division 1 or 10, it's mainly about wins/losses.

        This is nothing new 🙂

        As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

        Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

        So... my suggestion is:

        • Let's work together on solutions to improve this medal ranking instead of just repeat yourselves saying this ranking is a bad idea?

        NOTE: If you guys want me to be active providing answers where possible and discuss it with you, you first have to read, give it some thought and think before post!

        Secondly, cheaters are NOT the underlying problem. The problem is the --> uncompetitiveness.
        This medals system seems to encourage playing against weak managers or even CPU's.
        It's such a pity that a game with millions of players brings value and bases its ranking upon playing against CPU's... 😅 Weakening crew activity and competitions against other players on its way. Maybe you could explain why it's the case or why it's not.
        I'm genuinely curious to understand if we are wrong, deeper explanations are heartily welcomed 🙂

        ➡ Yes the ideal of this new medals system is awesome. About the implementation however, it seems dubious indeed. 6 months ago, you told us to wait a bit so that the ranking stabilizes. Let's see.

        Until now, I wonder why 4 slots are needed or is the ratio against other managers according to their level well enough calculated because that leads to this question:

        • In order to be top ranked on osm, is it better to play individually 4 accounts against CPU's/weak players ?
          Or to play high level leagues/crew competitions ?

        What do the medals value more according to you/GB: CPU's/weak managers OR highly competitive managers?

        V Offline
        V Offline
        Vinayak Singh Mehra
        English Users
        wrote on last edited by
        #141

        @restimat
        True mate! I'm still disturbed with the huge amount of loss of medals when you lose a match. Now it's even boring.

        Boss at Pro Manager Guiders
        Be the one who thinks for all, just not for himself! #SaveOSM

        1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • xXSpeedKillX Offline
          xXSpeedKillX Offline
          xXSpeedKill
          Portuguese Users
          wrote on last edited by
          #142

          I think it's funny that I am within the ranking that they say they researched however I did not receive any request or inquiry to participate in the research ... and as I believe that many here

          Vincent Ado KompanyV 1 Reply Last reply
          7
          • xXSpeedKillX xXSpeedKill

            I think it's funny that I am within the ranking that they say they researched however I did not receive any request or inquiry to participate in the research ... and as I believe that many here

            Vincent Ado KompanyV Offline
            Vincent Ado KompanyV Offline
            Vincent Ado Kompany
            wrote on last edited by Vincent Ado Kompany
            #143

            @xxspeedkill said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

            I think it's funny that I am within the ranking that they say they researched however I did not receive any request or inquiry to participate in the research ... and as I believe that many here

            I can't remember having received such a survey, although I've been in the TOP 10,000 for a long time
            I asked my crewmates, they also can't remember this

            TOP G
            Nagelsmann on fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥
            Tari Gamad 🔞📌💦

            1 Reply Last reply
            3
            • SpecialOneS Offline
              SpecialOneS Offline
              SpecialOne
              wrote on last edited by SpecialOne
              #144

              About survey... Just because you didn't got it, don't remember, it doesn't mean we didn't do it.

              As you like to state quite often Gamebasics runs a business, so they want their business to succeed and we're not interested on destroy OSM, so every step/change we do requires some studies.

              The survey we're referring on the update announcement was made end of November/early December and users had to check announcements on app and click there to access it.

              There were 3 questions in there if I'm not mistaken (something like this):

              • Do you think Divisions & Medals are a good indicator of the best managers
              • What you think we can improve on Medal system
              • If we replace Manager points by Medals, what feature you would like to be involved in (and we listed 3/4 things)

              "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." --Winston Churchill

              otman347891O xXSpeedKillX jeffro daviesJ HP1LifeH JerryADSJ 5 Replies Last reply
              -3
              • SpecialOneS SpecialOne

                About survey... Just because you didn't got it, don't remember, it doesn't mean we didn't do it.

                As you like to state quite often Gamebasics runs a business, so they want their business to succeed and we're not interested on destroy OSM, so every step/change we do requires some studies.

                The survey we're referring on the update announcement was made end of November/early December and users had to check announcements on app and click there to access it.

                There were 3 questions in there if I'm not mistaken (something like this):

                • Do you think Divisions & Medals are a good indicator of the best managers
                • What you think we can improve on Medal system
                • If we replace Manager points by Medals, what feature you would like to be involved in (and we listed 3/4 things)
                otman347891O Offline
                otman347891O Offline
                otman347891
                wrote on last edited by
                #145

                @specialone According to you is this system fair ?

                You like to give us the word "fair-play" when you have banned the old battles but is it "fair-play" to put at the top of the ranking players who have been playing the game since 2020 and who have 4 slots in leagues closed with only BOTS ?

                1 Reply Last reply
                8
                • SpecialOneS SpecialOne

                  About survey... Just because you didn't got it, don't remember, it doesn't mean we didn't do it.

                  As you like to state quite often Gamebasics runs a business, so they want their business to succeed and we're not interested on destroy OSM, so every step/change we do requires some studies.

                  The survey we're referring on the update announcement was made end of November/early December and users had to check announcements on app and click there to access it.

                  There were 3 questions in there if I'm not mistaken (something like this):

                  • Do you think Divisions & Medals are a good indicator of the best managers
                  • What you think we can improve on Medal system
                  • If we replace Manager points by Medals, what feature you would like to be involved in (and we listed 3/4 things)
                  xXSpeedKillX Offline
                  xXSpeedKillX Offline
                  xXSpeedKill
                  Portuguese Users
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #146

                  @specialone

                  So if the objective is the success of the game and given that the most loyal customers of the game are here expressing the same negative opinion regarding this measure, they should think about this question better ... I am certainly not computer science but I believe that from the moment I eliminating the ranking points will create a very negative image among people who have played this game for years and there is no way to recover it ... Do you think that coaches who play for years will like to see their effort eliminated? After investing time and money in the game to be disregarded by the GB or miniclip? This is a shot in the foot ... you want to implement something forcibly against the opinion of your most loyal coaches ... Read the comments

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  8
                  • Vincent Ado KompanyV Vincent Ado Kompany

                    @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                    Looking at the majority of the posts we see in here, all should be fine if we lock the cheaters, is that it?

                    No

                    There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

                    Can you give specific reasons for this?

                    This new ranking is in place for 6 months and I didn't saw a single complaint/suggestion to improve it.... and now that we announce that we'll remove old one, suddenly it's all bad?

                    Probably because most managers (I mean those who play battle and other big competitions) did not pay attention to this type of ranking

                    As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

                    This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

                    Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

                    I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

                    So... my suggestion is:

                    • Let's work together on solutions to improve this medal ranking instead of just repeat yourselves saying this ranking is a bad idea?

                    I agree, we need to discuss that as well
                    This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

                    • (I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;
                    • There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;
                    • The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern 😂

                    NOTE: If you guys want me to be active providing answers where possible and discuss it with you, you first have to read, give it some thought and think before post!

                    SpecialOneS Offline
                    SpecialOneS Offline
                    SpecialOne
                    wrote on last edited by SpecialOne
                    #147

                    @ado-hackovic said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                    @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                    There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

                    Can you give specific reasons for this?

                    • Requested by users to have one single ranking and not split in 4 ranking positions, since they are the same user
                    • Confuse for new users to understand the process and reduce support workload with constant questions why points for ranking doesn't match (users don't search for answers or read, they just ask)
                    • On the technical side, old ranking system is becoming way too heavy for engines with the increase of number of users (keep in mind that every user have up to 4 entries on MP ranking system)
                      .....
                      ....

                    As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

                    This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

                    MPs ranking is based on last 6 months, older MPs don't have big influence, so a lot of users reached TOP 100 in 6 months 😉

                    Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

                    I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

                    It will be way more visible than before that they cheat, but number of cheaters won't change a lot, but if we notice changes it will be on the other direction (despite the complaints here, we've locked quite some managers already looking at ranking, we just don't do it on a daily basis)

                    This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

                    • (I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;
                    • There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;
                    • The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern 😂

                    Idea of this ranking is that you have a bigger progression when you start and smaller when you're at top.
                    I'm not saying this is perfect, but it's not as bad as you point (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues):

                    • Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
                    • You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

                    There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.
                    Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

                    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." --Winston Churchill

                    xXSpeedKillX Márcio Girilim SantosM RestimatR Vincent Ado KompanyV HBlauzahnH 7 Replies Last reply
                    -6
                    • SpecialOneS SpecialOne

                      @ado-hackovic said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                      @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                      There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

                      Can you give specific reasons for this?

                      • Requested by users to have one single ranking and not split in 4 ranking positions, since they are the same user
                      • Confuse for new users to understand the process and reduce support workload with constant questions why points for ranking doesn't match (users don't search for answers or read, they just ask)
                      • On the technical side, old ranking system is becoming way too heavy for engines with the increase of number of users (keep in mind that every user have up to 4 entries on MP ranking system)
                        .....
                        ....

                      As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

                      This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

                      MPs ranking is based on last 6 months, older MPs don't have big influence, so a lot of users reached TOP 100 in 6 months 😉

                      Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

                      I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

                      It will be way more visible than before that they cheat, but number of cheaters won't change a lot, but if we notice changes it will be on the other direction (despite the complaints here, we've locked quite some managers already looking at ranking, we just don't do it on a daily basis)

                      This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

                      • (I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;
                      • There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;
                      • The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern 😂

                      Idea of this ranking is that you have a bigger progression when you start and smaller when you're at top.
                      I'm not saying this is perfect, but it's not as bad as you point (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues):

                      • Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
                      • You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

                      There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.
                      Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

                      xXSpeedKillX Offline
                      xXSpeedKillX Offline
                      xXSpeedKill
                      Portuguese Users
                      wrote on last edited by xXSpeedKill
                      #148

                      @specialone

                      In short you are saying that we are not important !!! A long-time customer doesn't matter !! they really need to study consumer behavior and loyalty more ...

                      most important is a player who enters, plays for 2 months and gives up ...

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      2
                      • SpecialOneS SpecialOne

                        @ado-hackovic said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                        @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                        There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

                        Can you give specific reasons for this?

                        • Requested by users to have one single ranking and not split in 4 ranking positions, since they are the same user
                        • Confuse for new users to understand the process and reduce support workload with constant questions why points for ranking doesn't match (users don't search for answers or read, they just ask)
                        • On the technical side, old ranking system is becoming way too heavy for engines with the increase of number of users (keep in mind that every user have up to 4 entries on MP ranking system)
                          .....
                          ....

                        As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

                        This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

                        MPs ranking is based on last 6 months, older MPs don't have big influence, so a lot of users reached TOP 100 in 6 months 😉

                        Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

                        I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

                        It will be way more visible than before that they cheat, but number of cheaters won't change a lot, but if we notice changes it will be on the other direction (despite the complaints here, we've locked quite some managers already looking at ranking, we just don't do it on a daily basis)

                        This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

                        • (I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;
                        • There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;
                        • The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern 😂

                        Idea of this ranking is that you have a bigger progression when you start and smaller when you're at top.
                        I'm not saying this is perfect, but it's not as bad as you point (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues):

                        • Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
                        • You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

                        There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.
                        Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

                        xXSpeedKillX Offline
                        xXSpeedKillX Offline
                        xXSpeedKill
                        Portuguese Users
                        wrote on last edited by xXSpeedKill
                        #149

                        There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.

                        In other words ... you want to change the ranking by people who are not interested in the ranking ... and whoever is really interested and demonstrates their vision on this subject does not matter

                        You are eliminating the identity of the game

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • SpecialOneS SpecialOne

                          @ado-hackovic said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                          @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                          There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

                          Can you give specific reasons for this?

                          • Requested by users to have one single ranking and not split in 4 ranking positions, since they are the same user
                          • Confuse for new users to understand the process and reduce support workload with constant questions why points for ranking doesn't match (users don't search for answers or read, they just ask)
                          • On the technical side, old ranking system is becoming way too heavy for engines with the increase of number of users (keep in mind that every user have up to 4 entries on MP ranking system)
                            .....
                            ....

                          As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

                          This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

                          MPs ranking is based on last 6 months, older MPs don't have big influence, so a lot of users reached TOP 100 in 6 months 😉

                          Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

                          I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

                          It will be way more visible than before that they cheat, but number of cheaters won't change a lot, but if we notice changes it will be on the other direction (despite the complaints here, we've locked quite some managers already looking at ranking, we just don't do it on a daily basis)

                          This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

                          • (I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;
                          • There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;
                          • The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern 😂

                          Idea of this ranking is that you have a bigger progression when you start and smaller when you're at top.
                          I'm not saying this is perfect, but it's not as bad as you point (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues):

                          • Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
                          • You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

                          There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.
                          Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

                          Márcio Girilim SantosM Offline
                          Márcio Girilim SantosM Offline
                          Márcio Girilim Santos
                          Portuguese Users
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #150

                          @specialone Thank you for your response. This time you give us a real answer.

                          @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                          you can't have everything

                          Until now, the medal ranking did not bother us because we had the option of working for the ranking of coach points. The moment they decide to remove the ranking coach points they remove us the option of choice and force those who want to rise in the ranking to give up competitions, give up to play against opponents who challenge us. And instead of that to start playing in leagues against inactive or inexperienced coaches just for the search of medals. This kind of choose has not longevity...
                          Why should i keep playing a game that not recognize the time i have spent on the game?
                          Why does a player play the same game over the years?
                          For fun? No. Eventually it will tire.
                          A player needs a strong motivation to keep him stuck to the game.
                          How a player gets motivation playing a game? Challenging himself. How? Playing against the best coachs. And if he succeeds by being awarded!!!

                          This is so simple!

                          Membro fundador dos EderResolve e atual membro fundador dos EderResolve Academy!
                          Membro da Seleção Nacional Portuguesa de OSM!
                          Membro da Organização de Torneios Portuguesa (OTP)!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          5
                          • SpecialOneS SpecialOne

                            @ado-hackovic said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                            @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                            There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

                            Can you give specific reasons for this?

                            • Requested by users to have one single ranking and not split in 4 ranking positions, since they are the same user
                            • Confuse for new users to understand the process and reduce support workload with constant questions why points for ranking doesn't match (users don't search for answers or read, they just ask)
                            • On the technical side, old ranking system is becoming way too heavy for engines with the increase of number of users (keep in mind that every user have up to 4 entries on MP ranking system)
                              .....
                              ....

                            As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

                            This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

                            MPs ranking is based on last 6 months, older MPs don't have big influence, so a lot of users reached TOP 100 in 6 months 😉

                            Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

                            I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

                            It will be way more visible than before that they cheat, but number of cheaters won't change a lot, but if we notice changes it will be on the other direction (despite the complaints here, we've locked quite some managers already looking at ranking, we just don't do it on a daily basis)

                            This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

                            • (I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;
                            • There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;
                            • The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern 😂

                            Idea of this ranking is that you have a bigger progression when you start and smaller when you're at top.
                            I'm not saying this is perfect, but it's not as bad as you point (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues):

                            • Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
                            • You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

                            There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.
                            Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

                            RestimatR Offline
                            RestimatR Offline
                            Restimat
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #151

                            @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                            Very interesting and legit answers to Ado, thanks ! (Still waiting for the answer on my post though, but no urge of course 🙂 )

                            (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues) :

                            • Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
                            • You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

                            There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.

                            On one side, are you saying it's possible to be top ranked (not only level 9 or 10) on osm while playing very competitive leagues ?

                            Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

                            And on the other side, you say we cannot have both a high ranking and play competitive ?
                            Thus do you acknowledge the fact that the medals ranking has LITTLE link with the levels of managers, or am I wrong?

                            "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life." Confucius
                            "The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." Mahatma Gandhi
                            "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." MLK

                            otman347891O 1 Reply Last reply
                            7
                            • SpecialOneS SpecialOne

                              @ado-hackovic said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                              @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                              There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

                              Can you give specific reasons for this?

                              • Requested by users to have one single ranking and not split in 4 ranking positions, since they are the same user
                              • Confuse for new users to understand the process and reduce support workload with constant questions why points for ranking doesn't match (users don't search for answers or read, they just ask)
                              • On the technical side, old ranking system is becoming way too heavy for engines with the increase of number of users (keep in mind that every user have up to 4 entries on MP ranking system)
                                .....
                                ....

                              As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

                              This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

                              MPs ranking is based on last 6 months, older MPs don't have big influence, so a lot of users reached TOP 100 in 6 months 😉

                              Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

                              I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

                              It will be way more visible than before that they cheat, but number of cheaters won't change a lot, but if we notice changes it will be on the other direction (despite the complaints here, we've locked quite some managers already looking at ranking, we just don't do it on a daily basis)

                              This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

                              • (I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;
                              • There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;
                              • The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern 😂

                              Idea of this ranking is that you have a bigger progression when you start and smaller when you're at top.
                              I'm not saying this is perfect, but it's not as bad as you point (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues):

                              • Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
                              • You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

                              There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.
                              Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

                              Vincent Ado KompanyV Offline
                              Vincent Ado KompanyV Offline
                              Vincent Ado Kompany
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #152

                              @specialone Thanks for your answer. Although I disagree, I respect your view of this situation. I think one ranking could have been made for manager points. The slot that has the most mp, put it in the ranking. I even suggested that one ranking be introduced, but someone from OSM Staff replied to me as what will happen to managers who play on one or two slots.
                              That is also my question

                              TOP G
                              Nagelsmann on fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥
                              Tari Gamad 🔞📌💦

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              3
                              • RestimatR Restimat

                                @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                                Very interesting and legit answers to Ado, thanks ! (Still waiting for the answer on my post though, but no urge of course 🙂 )

                                (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues) :

                                • Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
                                • You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

                                There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.

                                On one side, are you saying it's possible to be top ranked (not only level 9 or 10) on osm while playing very competitive leagues ?

                                Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

                                And on the other side, you say we cannot have both a high ranking and play competitive ?
                                Thus do you acknowledge the fact that the medals ranking has LITTLE link with the levels of managers, or am I wrong?

                                otman347891O Offline
                                otman347891O Offline
                                otman347891
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #153

                                @restimat he tries to find the answers he is going to say on google 🤣 🤣

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • xXSpeedKillX Offline
                                  xXSpeedKillX Offline
                                  xXSpeedKill
                                  Portuguese Users
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #154

                                  From the moment that the top 1 of the medal ranking is clearly a person who cheats this is all said about the medal system

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  4
                                  • SpecialOneS SpecialOne

                                    @ado-hackovic said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                                    @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                                    There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

                                    Can you give specific reasons for this?

                                    • Requested by users to have one single ranking and not split in 4 ranking positions, since they are the same user
                                    • Confuse for new users to understand the process and reduce support workload with constant questions why points for ranking doesn't match (users don't search for answers or read, they just ask)
                                    • On the technical side, old ranking system is becoming way too heavy for engines with the increase of number of users (keep in mind that every user have up to 4 entries on MP ranking system)
                                      .....
                                      ....

                                    As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

                                    This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

                                    MPs ranking is based on last 6 months, older MPs don't have big influence, so a lot of users reached TOP 100 in 6 months 😉

                                    Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

                                    I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

                                    It will be way more visible than before that they cheat, but number of cheaters won't change a lot, but if we notice changes it will be on the other direction (despite the complaints here, we've locked quite some managers already looking at ranking, we just don't do it on a daily basis)

                                    This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

                                    • (I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;
                                    • There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;
                                    • The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern 😂

                                    Idea of this ranking is that you have a bigger progression when you start and smaller when you're at top.
                                    I'm not saying this is perfect, but it's not as bad as you point (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues):

                                    • Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
                                    • You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

                                    There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.
                                    Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

                                    xXSpeedKillX Offline
                                    xXSpeedKillX Offline
                                    xXSpeedKill
                                    Portuguese Users
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #155

                                    @specialone

                                    And another thing ... when you make changes you are very vague ... in the update of the positions they say it is close but do not give a date for a person to organize ... try to be objective and give specific days

                                    timilic7T 1 Reply Last reply
                                    2
                                    • rodsalattaR Offline
                                      rodsalattaR Offline
                                      rodsalatta
                                      Portuguese Users
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #156

                                      This game is getting worse with each passing day.

                                      Just bad decisions like this one.

                                      I would like to know who was the genius who thought this would be good.

                                      Many goods players are tired of this kind of decision and are stopping with this game.

                                      They just think about money and forget to think about people.

                                      Bad and dark times are coming, the solution will be find other game.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      8
                                      • xXSpeedKillX Offline
                                        xXSpeedKillX Offline
                                        xXSpeedKill
                                        Portuguese Users
                                        wrote on last edited by xXSpeedKill
                                        #157

                                        @ialeksandari said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                                        @SpecialOne Many things need to be improved with Medals, but I need to fokus on one big, and that's -medals for loses with clubs with low objective
                                        If I take club with objective 16, and loss aggainst club with objective 1, I can't lose 1000+ medals, it's fair let's say 50, 60..
                                        if you understand what i mean

                                        And,
                                        update is your thing, i mean, not for players to work on, but if you put something in the game, it need's to be near perfection, not at the begining
                                        All of this is cirkus, update this, delete that, remove this, remove that

                                        exactly ... it is a system that has many flaws and that is clearly far from being optimized and want to implement this "against everything and against everyone"

                                        and more ... osm contrary to what they say is supported by long-term players who spend money every month in the game ... not by those who play 1 or 2 months and give up ... are the players that you ( staff) devalue that support the game

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        2
                                        • SpecialOneS SpecialOne

                                          @ado-hackovic said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                                          @specialone said in Divisions - Discussion/Questions....:

                                          There will never be a perfect system that please all users. There were several reasons for us to look for a different ranking system (gameplay and technical reasons).

                                          Can you give specific reasons for this?

                                          • Requested by users to have one single ranking and not split in 4 ranking positions, since they are the same user
                                          • Confuse for new users to understand the process and reduce support workload with constant questions why points for ranking doesn't match (users don't search for answers or read, they just ask)
                                          • On the technical side, old ranking system is becoming way too heavy for engines with the increase of number of users (keep in mind that every user have up to 4 entries on MP ranking system)
                                            .....
                                            ....

                                          As far as I'm aware, there was also a lot of cheating with old ranking, but that didn't ended up in such a fast climb in rankings which make it difficult to spot them, now with 4 slots adding together, it's easier to spot them and they will be caught/punished faster.

                                          This is true - it's very difficult to get to the top. However, there were a couple of people who made it to the top 100 in this way and who were banned. How long it took them, I don't know. According to the new ranking, they need about 5-6 months.

                                          MPs ranking is based on last 6 months, older MPs don't have big influence, so a lot of users reached TOP 100 in 6 months 😉

                                          Our main goal is not punish users, we aim to 'educate' users and make it harder to cheat. That's why we don't go on chase cheaters via ranking otherwise we wouldn't be doing anything else.

                                          I would not agree with this. I think more people will cheat now than before

                                          It will be way more visible than before that they cheat, but number of cheaters won't change a lot, but if we notice changes it will be on the other direction (despite the complaints here, we've locked quite some managers already looking at ranking, we just don't do it on a daily basis)

                                          This ranking is a bad idea for several reasons:

                                          • (I'm talking about members of the TOP 50 crew) We play battle with extremely good managers and it is difficult to maintain a positive number of medal points. For that reason, amateurs will have an advantage over us who play this longer;
                                          • There are other competitions like CrewCup, FMS, NationCup ... and it is much harder to beat an opponent than in the noob league;
                                          • The only advantage of this ranking are beginners and those who never play against good managers. If they played, they would pass as Barcelona against Bayern 😂

                                          Idea of this ranking is that you have a bigger progression when you start and smaller when you're at top.
                                          I'm not saying this is perfect, but it's not as bad as you point (I reached level 10 playing in competitive leagues):

                                          • Winning against CPU teams give you less Medals than Humans (on level 10 I get 17 medals vs 120)
                                          • You loose more medals when you draw/lose if you're in higher divisions (if you don't cheat, you also lose against CPUs once in a while, so you'll lose even more medals) - For every defeat I lose almost 2K Medals on Level 10

                                          There's an assumption among you guys that just because you play longer you're a better manager than a new manager? There are a lot of guys that play OSM for several years and still don't understand the game, others don't care... they just play because they like it and because of the friends.... they don't care with rankings.
                                          Every body has the right to chose if he wants to play for ranking, for competitiveness or just for fun... and you can't have everything... On my crew league the lowest Division is 8 and ALL managers that play OSM for more than 5 years!

                                          HBlauzahnH Offline
                                          HBlauzahnH Offline
                                          HBlauzahn
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #158

                                          @specialone You say members of support don't have the time to watch out for the cheats every day.
                                          Then please form a task force now in the course of the changeover to the medals that will seriously deal with finding and blocking these cheaters. When the task force has done its job, only then will you get a fair ranking. If you don't do that, you are supporting these cheaters.
                                          We as managers who love and intensively play this game feel like the real cheats.

                                          Márcio Girilim SantosM 1 Reply Last reply
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